Comments on: The Two Envelopes Problem https://puzzlewocky.com brain teasers, word games, paradoxes, situation puzzles, and optical illusions Sun, 19 Nov 2023 18:20:09 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: EVERVONO https://puzzlewocky.com/brain-teasers/the-two-envelopes-problem/#comment-397 Sun, 19 Nov 2023 18:20:09 +0000 https://puzzlewocky.com/?page_id=251#comment-397 The analysis is correct. Another way of thinking about it is to observe that for a fixed x, three different values are at play in the algebra, namely, 0.5x, x and 2x. This defies the construction which claims that there are only two values. Hence, x is defined as two numbers are once. Get rid of 0.5x and say either “I have x and the other is 2x” or “I have 2x and the other is x”

Technically there are two mistakes though. First is letting x be two things at once. However, even if you want to play the game of letting x be two things at once, you reach an infinite series and cannot perform any calculations. I.e. if the second is 2x or 0.5x , then by definition, we were wrong that the first was x. It must be 4x,x,x or 0.25x. Which then means we were wrong about the second, which is either 8x,2x,2x,0.5x,2x,0.5x,0.5x or 0.125x. Should be clear at this point that something has gone horribly wrong. The second mistake was to presume it was ok to calculate the expected value before updating the possible values in the envelopes infinitely many times.

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By: Cyro https://puzzlewocky.com/brain-teasers/the-two-envelopes-problem/#comment-357 Wed, 02 Nov 2022 02:33:28 +0000 https://puzzlewocky.com/?page_id=251#comment-357 In reply to jeffjo56.

You have a 50% chance of getting 2x and a 50% chance of getting x when you first pick swapping does nothing to change that, the other envelope also has 50% chance of each, the reasoning is wrong because x is defined as 2 numbers at once (try inserting 1 into the equation, 2 times 1 is 2 while 0.5 times 1 is 0.5 which is four times less than 2 instead of the stated 2 times less)

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By: jeffjo56 https://puzzlewocky.com/brain-teasers/the-two-envelopes-problem/#comment-69 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:09:21 +0000 https://puzzlewocky.com/?page_id=251#comment-69 I don’t like the common-sense resolution, because it isn’t a resolution. A resolution will tell you what is wrong with one of the candidate solutions, and all it did was provide a second solution. Without explaining why the other is wrong, it is a paradox, not a resolution.

I also don’t like the explanation given above, “x stands for two different things in the equation … the smaller amount [or] the larger amount.” The point of a random variable is that it “stands for” the set of all possibilities. So while this is attempting to explanation the error, it is technically incorrect.

I prefer an example of what that explanation was trying to say, which is that treating the envelope as having a specific value, even the unknown X, requires knowing how X was picked.

1) Say I prepare two envelopes, with $5 and $10, and give them to you for the above experiment. I tell you these values. But since the envelopes are sealed, all it means to you is that one has twice as much as the other. The point is that you can’t consider the any one value as having the potential to both win, and lose. That is, your envelope has $5, switching can only increase the value.

2) Say I prepare two pairs, one with ($5,$10) and one ($10,$20). You pick one at random for the above experiment. Again, all you know for certain is that is that one of the two has twice as much as the other. If your envelope has $10, then the “you should switch” argument above is actually correct! You have a 50% chance to lose $5, and a 50% chance to gain $10, so the expected gain is $2.50. But if you have $20, you lose $10.

3) Say I prepare ten pairs, nine with ($5,$10) and one ($10,$20). Now, if you have $10, there is a 90% chance you will lose $5, and only a 10% chance you will gain $10. So the expectation is a loss of $3.50.

The point is that the 50%:50% split applies only to whether your envelope is the higher or lower envelope, not to whether the specific value in the envelope is the higher or lower value. That is determined by both the 50%:50% split, and the relative probabilities that the envelopes were prepared with ($X/2,$X) or ($X,$2X).

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